>> very nice. god bless your friend. >> we have an announcement to make here on "the five." yes, another one. we made a baby "the five." kristin alblack, she will be a news reporter! yes, in the bronx. channel 12. we are very proud of the reporter we produced here. there she is, she has been fantastic and indispensable part of this team and success of the show. we wish her all the best. i am going to call it right here. she is going to have a huge career as a reporter. thank you for everything have you done near us. >> we love you. >> she's the best. >> she is great. >> that's it for us five. but be sure to tune in on sunday at 8:00 p.m. senior eastern. we want to thank everybody for watching and being with us. services, inc. >> sean: and this is a fox news alert.

earlier today in a pathetic last minute effort to avoid the nation falling off the fiscal cliff president arnold palmer took a mini break from the golf schedule to summon congressional leaders to the white house. a last minute mini deal could be struck before the end of the year that would preserve tax cuts for the middle class and preserve unemployment benefits. the president raced to the microphones and said the following after this meeting. watch. >> i just had a good and constructive discussion here at the wows with senate and house leadership about how to prevent this tax hike on the middle class and i'm optimistic we may still be able to reach an agreement that can pass both houses in time. senators reid and mcconnell are working on such an agreement as we speak. >> sean: here is what you need to remember. number one, the whole fed iasco was totally and completely avoidable. number two, senate democrats have not fulfilled their constitutional duty to pass a budget in over three long

years. over 13 hyundais. their obsession has been and continues to be ruthless politics over doing what is right for you, the american people. now, number three, not once in the time has president obama demanded that the senate do their job. this is the height of irresponsibility. number four, the president's main focus has been to attack republicans again and again yet republicans they have done their job. they passed a bill months ago to avoid this fiscal cliff. now, that bill has been come meetly ignored by -- completely ignored by senate democrats and by the president. number five the worse part of all there is nothing here that the president is proprosing that deals with the real clear present danger that america now faces. reckless borrowing, reckless spending generational theft that brings america to the point of bankruptcy. the president has given the country over $6 trillion in new debt. trillion dollars deficits as far as the eye can see and all he wants to fight for is higher

taxes that will fund a mere 8 and a half days of government. frankly nothing but a pathetic disgrace. you the american people deserve a government that lives within its means. you deserve a government that is not obsessed with using your money to accumulate their power. it is time for americans to understand the simple truth of what is going on here. a truth by the way that an abusively biased news media just ignores. joining us now with reaction as america is on the brink republican senators pat toomey and ron johnson. senators, welcome back. >> hi, sean. >> hi, sean. >> sean: let's start with the meeting today. senator toomey, i'm told that the president wassed adamant n the meeting and didn't come off, are the original request was to keep tax rates at the same for the middle class but everybody above $250,000 going up. is that what you heard? >> i haven't heard about

specific elements of the conversation, sean, i wasn't in the room. what i do understand from people who were there is that is sounds for the first time like the president is actually engaged and actually would prefer that we not go over the cliff. clear previously.en leer the fact that mitch mcconnell is vouched in discussions is encouraging if something can't pass the senate with a lot of republican votes it is not going to pass the house either. i think for the first time we see some constructive engainlment at least. >> sean: i heard a little different story than senator toomey and that is that a lot of what we are seeing told is really for show and the fielding is that the president made up his mind. he wants to go over the fiscal cliff and sees a political advantage to negotiating this in january. what have you heard, sir? >> i watched the president's press conference.

basically we were told it was a serious discussion and there was a recognition on the part of president obama and senator reid that they are going to have to it craft a piece of legislation that would get a great deal of support from republicans in the senate because they realize that is the only way something is going to pass in the house. let's be encouraged by the fact that we are finally talking seriously, that there is going to be serious discussions tomorrow between senator mcconnell and senator reid and another good piece of news is the debt ceiling was not even brought up. i think there is also recognition it is too late in the game to try and fold that in because unfortunately probably not going to be a whole lot of serious discussion about what we need to do to save entitlements. >> sean: there is definitely true and i heard the exact same thing he does not get a debt ceiling increase which is important. he doesn't get the stimulus that he originally wa bargaine. at one point you seemed to support the plan b of senator boehner. tax rates increase for those over a million dollars. you are a guy that is well

known as a conservative. in principle isn't that something you think hurts the economy? >> no question what the president wants to do is bad for the economy, sean. what concerns me is we are now three days away from a really bad law taking effect which is increasing tax rates on everybody, huge increases on capital gains, massive increase on dividends. this is destructive. i see my mission in part to try to absolutely minimize the damage. unfortunately, i don't have the ability to repeal that law and the democrats control two out of the three parts of the elect ared government. i will fight as hard as i can to minimize this damage. but i got to be honest with you, i mean we got a pretty tough hand to deal with here. and we can't just change that law by ourselves. >> sean: it seems to me senator johnson three things that maybe the president hasn't thought of. number one if the president goes over the fiscal cliff on his watch the optics are not very good for him. while he may think there is an advantage here when the country

sees its taxes go up then he comes in as the guy that is the tax cutter. has he tored in the republicans -- factored in the republicans have control of the budget with the debt ceiling? >> i think the president is beginning to see the long-term consequences if we do increase taxes. we maybe ought to do a little celebrating here. democrats are now on board that 98% of bush's tax cuts were a good thing for america and for the economy. let's at least chalk that up as a win. i agree with senator toomey, right now unfortunately only president obama is the one man that can sign a bill into law and without him agreeing to sign a bill everybody's taxes go up. we are in a position of how do we limit the damage and i think the best way of doing that is continue to talk about what we need to do is grow the economy and that is something president obama hasn't shown any interest in doing. certainly hasn't concentrated on it in his first term. >> sean: and senator toomey, it

is a little frustrating as we watch this frankly reckless irresponsible political positioning going on. this really doesn't deal with the problem and this is really important i think for the american people to know as i said in my opening commentary. this will fund the government if he gets the increase in taxes on the so-called wealthy and small business that funds the government for eight and a half days. america has $16 trillion in debt and we are out of money again. why isn't the president -- why are we really discussing the spending issues would seem to mattery lot more? >> the reason is because unfortunately we have got a law that goes into effect on january that raises taxes and we have got to try to prevent as much of that as we can. look, you are absolutely right. if the president got the full tax increase he campaigned for that would solve 8% of the deficits projected for the next ten years and the president refuses to so much as offer an idea about what he is going to do about the other 92%.

this is ridiculous we spent all this time talking about how much damage the other side is going to insist on inflicting to the economy instead of talking about how do we get on a sustainable fiscal path to have strong economic growth and the prosperity that we ought to have and that our kids deserve. i agree this has all been misplaced. i want to get this behind us and do the best we possibly can on the tax side and focus on the real problem here, which is spending. >> sean: senator johnson, i'm told that sequestration will go through regardless of what maybe minut mini deal might han here. is that a good thing even though a lot of that money will apparently come from it defense you your opinion? >> hopefully one thing they can iron out is replace the defense sequestration cuts with other limitations in spending in other areas. would be a good thing. one of the points we do need to make is we he blue through the $2.1 trillion worth of debt

ceiling increase from last august in 17 months. that is an astonishing fact. once we get this tax issue behind us and hopefully in the next couple of days, then we need to start asking the president what s your plan, senator harry reid are you going pass a budget. i really do believe that the president and the democrats really have intention and as a result have no plan to limit the rate of growth in government and no plan to save social security and medicare and we need to start putting political pressure on them to show the american people a plan. the house passed two budgets since i have been here. they both include some proposal to save medicare. the democrats have not done that and this is really where we start turning the messaging on them and start demanding. i think the american people have a right to know, president obama are you going so solve the 92% or 93% of the deficit. what is it that you talked about on the campaign trail?

>> sean: how can you help me he out or help the american people out. they don't know what taxes will be in a couple of days and now we are counting the hours. how is it possible the u.s. senate does not pass a spending bill which constitutionally they are supposed to pass in over three years, over 13 hyundais and then elect the house republicans that did their job? how do we get to that point in it this argument? seems a little strange. >> it is incredible. it is an absolute obligation. it would be a common sense obligation on the part of congress to have a budget even if it weren't required by law but it is required by law and yet the senate democrats have still refused to produce a budget. that is a big part of the reason that we are in the mess we are in. we don't go through the normal process of figuring out how much we will spend, establishing the guard rails, putting the limits on the size of deficit and figuring out how we will reform the big programs. none of that happens and then we find ourselves back up against the wall with a situation like we are in now. a complete abdication of

responsibility. >> sean: senator johnson we are dealing with everything but what i say we need to be dealing with which is reckless spending, reckless debt and reckless deficits. do i overstate the case when i say that america real le is on the brink how dangerous is this for the country in the long-term if we keep kicking the can down the road? >> extremely dangerous. from 1970 to 1999 the federal government average interest rate was 5.3%. in order to accommodate all of this deficit spending we have been paying 1.5%. if we revert to that mean, that average borrowing cost when america was a far more credit worthy nation that would add more than $600 billion per year to just the interest expense. senator toomey is right. the reason we are in the situation, the last minute negotiation behind closed doors if that continues is because harry reid hasn't passed a budget. that would get reconciled with

the house budget and that would set the whole frame work of how the committee structure would go to work and start debating issues in public so the american people could actually see what the issues were that we are grappling with and weigh in this terms of public opinion in terms of what we need to do to save social security and medicare for future generations. we would be in a far better position. that is not the case because president obama doesn't propose serious budgets. >> sean: senator toomey, how is this going to work because speaker boehner tried to pass a plan b. the president in the meeting today is insisting on raising taxes on small business and individuals over $250,000. but yet he wants to work through the senate. how how does this get through the house when they couldn't get it with a million dollars limit? >> well, first -- >> sean: or a million dollars cutoff. >> i don't know where the threshold might end up in the negotiations. my suspicion is that is perhaps one of the topics under discussion and second point i would make i think a part of

the reticence is because they were afraid what would happen when it got over to the senate. if there is a reason package that can attract a lot of republican support in the senate then i think the prospect in the house improves dramatically. all depends on what is in the deal but that is a scenario that i think is plausible. >> sean: gentlemen, thank you both for spending time. happy new year and appreciate you being with us. >> happy new year, sean. >> sean: joining us for more anal list on the fiscal cliff showdown, we welcome bill cunningham and joe trippi. gentlemen, welcome back to "hannity." >> sean: how is it possible the president only wanted $800 billion in cuts during the campaign and now wants almost

double that and the president in this meeting today stayed on the original position when keeps lecturing america about a balanced approach. he hasn't moved an iota, an inch. how is that bald? balanced? his way tore the highway? >> he moved a lot. he moved to 400,000 as the top -- >> sean: no, he hasn't. i talked to people in the meeting today. people in the meeting today say he stayed right by his position of $250,000 and didn't back off an inch today. >> first of all, i wasn't in the room and you weren't in the room. i haven't talked to people who were in the room. publicly he has said that he has offered $400,000. but the problem is boehner couldn't even get the house caucus his house caucus to support it at a million. so we can talk about what -- and the president's offer has talked about change cpi which democrats are appalled that he has put on the table but he put that on the table in the past.

>> sean: appalling. >> there has been considerable things that the president has put forward. i don't think the problem is boehner and the president. the problem is boehner and his caucus. >> sean: but hang on a second. the problem bill cunningham, seems to me is not -- look, i didn't like speaker boehner with plan b. i didn't like the fact that speaker boehner has been far too accommodating to the president this these meetings but isn't the real problem the senate that has not passed a budget billy cunningham in over three years, over 1 13 1300 p.s and now lecturing republicans in the house and they did their job. >> i saw the movie lincoln in which he brought over racist democrats to his position. we know what ronald reagan went through with the liberal democrat from massachusetts named tip o'neill. week after week after week they worked together. we saw '92 and '93 when clinton worked with newt gingrich.

we have examples of presidential leadership. obama is pathetic. this is awful. this doesn't solve any problem at all. when i listen to the senator toomey and senator johnson i think we know what is going to happen now. it is going to pass the senate in the next 24 hours. go to the house. and i spoke to a couple of house members, republicans, who will be he given permission from boehner to do what? vote against it. they are going to get all of the democrats, 20, 30, 35 republicans, it is going to pass. the republicans won't be primaried in the next election by other tea party members. so the train is on the track and as an american it sickens me to watch my government not work and to watch a president who is pathetic and not solve the problem. >> sean: actually i'm hearing another story as well. and this s what -- and joe i did speak to someone that was in the meeting i'm sure the white house will be glad to hear that tonight and the impression that this individual got coming out of the meeting is the following. that the president wants to go

over the fiscal cliff. that they planned this from the very beginning. that is why he didn't back off on the $250,000 position today and the thinking is that the president comes back into town after a $4 trillion tax hike january 1, cuts, gives back $3 trillion of it and the bush tax cuts then become the obama tax cuts and he seems like the guy that is the tax cutter in all of this and this is a strategy, a plan from the very beginning. >> i don't think that is going to happen. i think the key is whether boehner uses the hastert bill which was to never put a bill forward that the majority in the party is not going to vote for. if he will put the hastert rule aside and give republicans a path to vote no that allows the president and the democrats to add their votes where the minority of republicans to pass

this thing and i think bill cunningham is right about how this may well play out. i don't think the president want -- the president does not want to go over the cliff. the last thing he needs right now is to -- is to risk going into a second recession. the first one he can blame on push and democrats and i'm there with him. the second one will be his and on his watch. >> sean: there has been a bill in the united states senate that extends the bush tax cuts for everybody and he could at least -- they can temporarily pass that. it has been law since 2001 and 2003. what is the big deal if they need more time. but he is no lincoln. i saw the movie, too, billy cunningham and if the economy goes south it is not the republican's blame this will be viewed as the obama era, not the boehner era. there is a certain risk here, bill cunningham. >> i think my friend john

boehner, he has become an institutionalist. a dennis hastert kind of a speaker instead of newt gingrich. not a revolutionary. not a member of the tea party. he wants a deal so he can talk later on about getting elected. this is the way boehner gets reelected as speaker. this is the way that obama wins injuries the media will declare him the winner. this is the way the republicans in the house get out of this box because they are going to vote no, not be primaried and then the train is on the track and sadly i think what is going to happen, sean hannity is the predictions of ernst and young and the cbo is between 250,000 and 700,000 private sector jobs lost because of this deal and that will be hung around the neck of barack hussein obama. >> you are saying bill cunningham that the people not being considered here are the american people. >> us. >> sean: washington is failing america at this moment because on top of it, they are not

dealing with the real problem. >> no. >> sean: and all this discussion. >> sean, bill is right. >> sean: 6 cents of every dollar. >> can i just add? there is a difference between boehner and gingrich. gingrich led that revolution in 1994 when came back into the -- back to his caucus and said he had worked out something with bill clinton, the caucus viewed him as the leader of their revolution. he had -- he could move that caucus. that is not what boehner is doing here. first of all, bill is right, boehner wasn't the leader of this revolution. and he -- and he is going to -- and he wants to get reelected as speaker and the only way for him to do that is to put the hastert rule aside, get republicans a path, let them vote no. why, so they won't be primaried by tea party activists and that s what they are afraid of. these people are not afraid --

>> sean: that is inside politics. the american people should be -- >> that is what is going on. >> sean: we will see. i will tell you one other outrage here. while the american people have been struggling and suffering and generational theft is going on what did we see obama is ordering pay raises for biden and members of congress and federal workers and nobody is talking about our healthcare taxes going up, billy cunningham. how in good conscience do they do this at this time? >> sean hannity, the people are taking this in the shorts now are going to be the butchers, the bakers, the candlestickmakers and carpenters and elec electricia. we haven't talked about the huge tax increases on average americans. take billions and ship it off to a black hole in washington and call it a victory. boehner will be elected speaker. the republicans won't be primary #-d. the media will declare obama the winner and the only person

getting hurt is the middle class that allegedly obama supports which is a bunch of baloney. that s go is going to happen. >> i will throw this to joe trippi. the people that will really be hurt are the children and grand children that we are stealing from. we are robbing these kids blind. we are taking their inheritance away. and i have a question for you, for joe trippi. why is this president so obsessed, obsessed with taxing small business that will fund the government eight and a half days and not dealing with the trillion dollars deficits? can you explain that? >> that is not what s going to happen here, sean and you know it. >> sean: wait a minute. they are not dealing with spending, joe. he is not protesters posing any serious cuts. >> if you go to $400,000 or higher on the level which the tax rates go up that is going to hit very small group of small business people what we would call small business

people. >> sean: joe, 8 and a half days. that is not the issue. >> that is not the issue. the issue is you have to do it all. >> sean: and where is obama? >> there is no revenue problem it is a spending problem. we have revenue and spending problems right now. it is a slow slope out of this and that is what the president is trying to do to the tune of $4 trillion. >> sean: but joe, stop! four years he has had here and given us $6 trillion in debt. he is trying? he is not cutting spending. >> the revenues got wiped out -- revenues got hit because of the -- because of the recession. that is his part of the problem. that is true. there s a small part there at least. >> sean hannity does any of this create new jobs? we are talking about 2 cents on the dollar. does this deal, joe trippi,

create one private sector american job? the answer is no. this is playing to the most extreme liberal base. creates no jobs. explodes the deficit. hurts middle class employment. none has anything to do with the problem that we have which is number one in revenue we are spending too much and number two job creation. none of this helps either one of those things joe trippi and you know that is true. >> i don't know that is true and we won't agree about that. we will agree about one thing. going over the cliff will be far worse than what the president has put forward as a solution. >> sean: no, it is not. >> yes, it will. why don't we go over the cliff and get it over with. that makes sense to me, sean. >> sean: i say from the beginning he wanted to go over the cliff. he gets to blame republicans, tax everybody and gets defense cuts he never dreamed of through se

see questions traition. we still have trillion dollars deficits. >> we got to be honest here. >> let's be honest both parties have been lying to the american people about that for years for decades sean. it is not a dam problem. >> sean: and no president has spent like this reckless spender. billy cunningham? >> this is a felony and a capital offense. i also believe that if we go over the cliff he is a lot more money to spend in washington. defense spending goes down and we also have sequestration which i think is part of this deal. sean hannity, this deal is going to happen. i spoke to two congressmen and they are voting no on the dealnd voting for boehner for speaker. boehner gets what he wants. the tea party gets what they want which is a no vote. >> sean: you are not happy about it are you? >> i'm not happy at all.

the deal we will be hurt, the american people, your children, my grandchildren they are the ones that will pay for this with the is sequestration for their standard of living for the next 20 years and we can't act like this is a victory when it is a defeat. >> sean: if they are playing washington games why are they even there. they weren't elected to play games like this. they were elected to govern. this is frustrating. you know why? then we have the debt ceiling coming up. what excuse will they come up? >> they will not cut spending. harry reid, nancy pelosi, chuck schumer, they are not going to cut spending. >> sean: how about the republicans? >> i hope the next time the republicans don't get rolled like they will be rolled the next 48 hours. >> sean: in one sense, joe, i got to give your president a lot of credit. he went out there, went out campaigning. he does a really good job blaming the republicans. he was able to frame the debate about taxes against the rich. not on his reckless spending. as a politician, he is

pretty -- he is pretty amazing. in terms of governing, he is horrible. this is not good long-term for this country. >> well, look, the president was very clear in two campaigns now about raising taxes on the top 2%. he was clear. and he and romney had that thing -- had that out. and he won on that platform, sean. i mean he fair and square he won on it. and he is going to make -- republicans. >> 2.5 in spending cuts. right now it is one-to-one or less. he didn't keep his promise on that he, joe trippi and you know it. >> 2.5 to one. >> there was a trillion dollars in cuts already that he agreed to when also agreed to extend the bush tax cuts. >> sean: they are not cuts, joe. they are not real cuts. social security is going bankrupt.

medicare is going bankrupt. we have obama care. everybody is about to explode and all you want to talk about is taxion small businesses. you don't want to talk about cutting spending. >> where are the $2 trillion in republican cuts? where are they? they don't want to talk about it either. >> sean: tax reform. they want hang only. tax reform. medicare reform and save social security. >> sean. >> sean: all the things have been discussed and proposed by paul ryan and his budget. >> the whole reason this happened is the fiscal cliff that we are facing the fiscal cliff was supposedly because what the two sides couldn't agree to in 2011 they would make it so horrible that they would have to do something. now, they can't do anything big. we are not even sure tonight whether it would be something small to get through the fiscal cliff. >> sean: i think the president ought to fly to hawaii to play rounds 108, 109, 110. bill cunningham is a scratch

golfer. i don't think he has played that many rounds in a year, have you? >> sean hannity we have is gone over the cliff. we are in the gully. $16.4 trillion of debt on top of us and obama says let's add 4 or are 5 trillion more. we have gone over the cliff already. >> sean: thank you both on what we are are calling america on the brink. the fiscal cliff battle continues right up to the very end. when we come back, former governor bill richardson will attempt to explain where president obama's leadership has been on the fiscal cliff showdown. a hannity one on one shootout and then senator dianne feinstein is introducing a new assault weapons ban and believe it or not she s actually now talking about gun owners being registered and fingerprinted. we will get to that and much

>> sean: as president obama continues to place the blame on congressional leaders for the looming fiscal cliff disaster. the president seems to be he okay with this happening. why? because if obama stood up and showed real leadership there be consequences for him. this could impact the radical agenda he plans to put forth in a second term. senator john kerry awaits his confirmation hearings to begin and republicans are saying not so fast and demanding current secretary of state hillary

clinton testify on benghazi before any confirmation hearings begin. joining me with reaction to all this and much more is former new mexico governor bill richardson. thanks for being with us. happy new year. >> thank you, sean. >> sean: governor, we have actually been friendly over the years. you and i have gotten along. i remember i have been out to your estate and you have is been gracious enough to be nice to me over the years. i look at you as somebody that cared about your state and country and worked very hard. if we are now on the brink as a country and americans and businesses have no idea what their taxes going to be. the united states senate has not passed a spending bill in over 13 hyundais, over three years and the president, harry reid, they are all blaming republicans. where is the blame in the intellectual honesty in your party to say this is reckless, irresponsible, on the democrats part? do you acknowledge that?

>> sean, i think for the first time tonight they are moving in the right direction. they are talking. there is progress. here is my take. i think that speaker boehner wants a deal. i think mitch mcconnell wants a deal. so does harry reid. and so does the president. i think the problem lies with the tea party republicans in the house. that is the problem. i think it makes no sense to assign blame right now. i think the next 24 hours are critical. i worry about the automatic defense cuts. medicare, people vulnerable problems but i think there is a genuine effort by these leaders right now especially mcconnell and harry reid to get a bill to the senate floor that you mentioned that moves us in the right direction. maybe short-term and then in a few days later after the new year's a longer term grand

bargain. >> sean: you know, governor, with all -- we are good friends, you totally avoided my question. for 1300 p. days over three years the senate has a constant -- i know you are laughing. the senate as a constitutional authority to pass spending bills and they he haven't done it. and now three days before the country is going over a fiscal cliff and now maybe might get a mini deal and now they are engaged. don't you think that is irresponsible from the democratic standpoint. i think republicans have made mistakes. they spend too much money, too. >> sean, it has been irresponsible on the part of the whole congress. this is why they are held in such low esteem. as a governor of a state you you have to balance a budget, it is state law you in most states. this is why i called for a constitutional amendment to balance the budget when i was running for president four

years ago. i didn't get very far. it was not popular. my point is that look i served in the congress. these negotiations happen on budgets, on taxes, on even foreign policy issues the last days when the presidential hopefuls he sure is really on. when the gun is pointing to the head of a lot of members of congress. bipartisan, republican and democrats. it is moving in the right direction. we have three, four days to go. i wouldn't be surprised ifing something doesn't happen until the very last day. but i think it will. i sense that. >> sean: let me governor just very gently disagree with you. i know you probably think this is maybe a good deal whatever they are talking about and they are talking. i spoke to somebody who was in the meeting today and the president is exactly where he was on day one and that is businesses, small business, over $250,000 they pay more. that would fund government for 8 and a half days. that is all that is going to be.

to me when a president borrows 46 cents of every dollar and we are $16 trillion in debt tell me where we are wronging. i don't think we are dealing with the real problem. i don't think this solves anything. i think this has been a false argument from the beginning. we have to deal with spending and they are spending way too much money in washington. >> i think the reality sean if you look at latest agreements or deals, i won't call them agreements, we are not that far apart on discretionary spending. we are are not that far apart on some of the other programs that entitlement programs. we really are basically big differences in the tax arena, the $250,000 threshold and i think the president has moved. he has moved on all fronts and i do think as i said speaker boehner and i think now senator mcconnell they are all moving in the right direction towards an agreement.

and i do believe in the end sean -- >> sean: but the agreement -- but an agreement. let me give you an example. i will use your words. you balanced the budget as governor. you ran on a platform and i agree with you, i think we ought to balance our budget. every american has to balance their budget. none of what we are discussing today or nothing in this deal will stop this country from borrowing 46 cents of every dollar or take away the $16 trillion in it debt that keeps rising. i don't think we are getting closer to anything that is really going to solve america's problem, are we? >> there is where i agree with you. i think beyond in fiscal cliff deal there has to be a long-range plan. the simpson bowles plan i think is the one that makes most sense entitlement reform, spending cuts. and many other measures that need to happen. look, we have to have jobs and economic growth in this country he. that should be paramount in trying to resolve these

economic problems. i think the congress and the president as soon as this deal is over and i think there will be one in the next week or so, short-term first, then a longer term one has to get down to job creation, economic growth, technology growth, international issues affecting our international security, this really needs to happen and it has to be bipartisan and i think we are moving in that direction right now. >> i'm going to make a final bet and prediction with you only because we are odd friends. i will bet you a gentleman's bet that the president wants the fiscal cliff and he will come back and give back the new tax increases and then there will be a huge fight over the debt ceiling and i don't see a path to any real compromise in the end. i think we are at a pretty large standstill in the

country, governor. >> well, let's say we'll have a friendly bet, sean and as good friends let's keep it that way. i'm not going propose 10,000 bucks like mitt romney did. just a friendly bet. >> sean: you got to let it go. at some point. he lost the election. good to see you. thank you for being with us and happy new year to you. >> same to you, sean. >> sean: we break down senator dianne feinstein her proposed new weapons ban and some have to register their firearms and get fingerprinted with the federal government. and why an arts and crafts company could be forced to pay over a million dollars a day because it refuses to comply with the obama law because they say it violates the religion belief hs of the owners. more as this

>> sean: as lawmakers continue the gun control debate in the wake of the newtown tragedy we are learning that senator diane fine stain has been work on a highly restrict eastbound assault weapons ban and will introduce a bill early next year that will ban the sale, transfer importation or manufacturing of is specific semi automatic firearms bringing back the ban that expired in 2004 and enhance various state bans and ban large capacity ammunition feeding devices capable of

accepting more than ten rounds and require grandfathered weapons to be registered under the national firearms act. here with reaction and analysis are kate leslie. we are talking about registration, fingerprinting and in the case of governor cuomo, confiscation that he mentioned. is there any proposal since the tragedy at newtown or the 500 dead people that live in chicago this year, is there any proposal that you have heard that would have saved lives in newtown? >> to be honest with you, sean, not 100%, no, i'm not going to lie to you because i you always maintained and i think i said it last time i was on your show this is a problem that requires a multifaceted is solution to the problem. it is not just about gun control. and honestly, i don't think that this gun control measure goes far enough and i know you are not going to be happy with

me for that. >> sean: want to fingerprint us and register and confiscate, you know, kate, listening they will acknowledge seems to me we have mental health issues we are not addressing. moral values issues that you can't talk about god in school any more. that s, you know, i'm surprised they can still mention it on tv. you can't talk about any of these things and if you talk about using a guard to protect your money or to protect a hollywood star or protect the president or a politician right thing to do, you can't have armed guards protectth our children? >> right. and basically, sean, this bill that feinstein proposed has nothing to do with averting the tragedy that happened, the horror that happened. in fact, when the assault gun ban was in from '94 to 2004, these. >> sean: columbine. >> the mass murderers went up slightly. the ban is just an attempt to ban all guns. it includes the ban of semi

automatic handguns which are used to for self-defense. the most popular gun purchased for self-defense because it has the removable magazine that holds ten rounds will be on the list of banned guns. these are guns the supreme court said people can have because they are used for self-defense. this ban is going to take care of those. dianne feinstein was packing heat in her purse before she ran for senate and wanted to implement a ban at that time on handguns and she is doing the same thing now. >> and rahm emanuel's kids their school has armed guards. you said you wanted to go further than registration and fingerprinting. you want to go further than governor cuomo and confiscation. i have to ask you you a simple question. what part of the right of the people to keep and bear arms don't you understand? what part is do you have trouble with here? >> i understand. what i don't think our founding

forefathers were thinking about and we can't dig them up you and ask them but if we could i would be willing to bet they would be automatic what, magazine clips what? >> sean: would you like me to quote some of them? >> we are talking about that making sure that the law enforcement officials have access to better weapons than the criminals. >> they do. automatic weapons are banned. >> we just had a guns for food drive here in los angeles. are two rocket launchers were walked in. how do people get their hands on such weapons? there has to be something to prevent this? >> sean: what happened to australia when they had a gun buyback program, crime went through the roof. criminals don't obey the law. >> it will keep law abiding citizens from being able to protect themselves. the founding fathers you don't need to be able to dig them he up to ask them this. they had every intent that the

american people would have the right to bear arms to defend themselves in any situation including with semi automatic handguns. i for one would want a semi automatic handgun if an intruder or multiple intruders were coming in i need more than one good shot. it is the right of every individual to be able to defend themselves. the constitution is clear and the intent was have an armed population to wisely protect themselves from individuals, oh oppression and tyranny. all the bans do is make is easier for criminals to assault law abiding citizens. >> sean: if you look at the kate's reading of the bill is dead on about semi automatic pistols for example and i have been a pistol marksmen since i was 11 years old. i carried weapons for more than half of my life. i believe in gun safety more than anything else. the nra never gets credit but they teach more is gun safety

courses than anybody in the country. my question to you is what would you do if you want to go further than what she wants what are you going to do if somebody god forbid breaks into your house at night? how do you protect your house and your family? >> we didn't preplan this. i'm so glad that you asked that question. >> sean: baseball bat. call police. >> let's look at statistics and i'm going to tell you, if your gun is responsible will kept separate from the ammunition. >> sean: i don't want statistics. >> by the time at 3:00 in the morning you are woken up from rem stage and stumble to get your gun and the ammunition you are already down with the criminal and the weapon in their hands. most gun owners guns are used on them not for their protection. >> sean: so you would do nothing? just be a sitting duck? that is wall i wanted to know? >> sean, i have two hands, two feet, a big mouth to scream with. >> you are going to need a gun.

if somebody is coming at you with a gun. >> i don't need a gun. i don't need a gun. >> it you might not want one. i have a right to own one and the american people have a right to own and square carry them. >> they do. >> you're right. >> sean: a craft chain store refuses to offer employees the morning after pill and now could face fines of $1.3 million a day for violating the federal

>> sean: welcome back to hannity. in a defiant act against obama care the arts and crafts chain called hobby lobby is refusing to provide employees with healthcare that provides access to emergency contraception because it violates the religion beliefs of the

company's own and they could now you face a fine of up to $1.3 million per day. on wednesday, supreme court justice sonia sotomayor denied the request for an injunction. she said the company may challenge the regulations in the lower courts. they will offer the health insurance just without the contraception coverage and while it continues the fight here with reaction, jordan seculo and tara is with us. do you believe in religious freedom? i know you do. >> i do believe in religious free tomorrow. i'm baptist and i certainly respect my religion as well as the rights of others. >> sean: and the right to practice religion should not be infringed i think i read that some place. that is all true, right? >> that is why it is great that the healthcare reform law does have a religious exemption. >> sean: it does and it doesn't. the fact is it really doesn't. for example if you are catholic

hospital or charity or in this case this chain they are deeply held religious convictions of the owners. they are willing to provide health insurance coverage but not this and why would the government, jordan have a right to step in and tell them they must do something that goes directly against their conscience and something that is forbidden by their conscience? >> first of all, we he just won one of these cases moments before coming on the air out of the 7th circuit. we are three for three at the circuit court of appeals on getting the injunctions for not religious organizations but private companies like hobby lobby. it is not a shock that justice sotomayor agreed with the hhs mandate when you look at the policies. this is an affront to religious liberty. $1.3 million a day starting on tuesday if you choose not to violate your religious conscience which for hobby lobby is just for abortive

patiences. these are then. the congressional record has shown that and it will be up to the department of labor sean. it will be very interest iting to see if they are going to take that action to try to collect. >> tara, why wouldn't you support the religious right and liberty of this company to follow its deeply held religious conviction and conscience? they are not against row riding health insurance but this to them is -- providing health insurance but this to them is immoral so now we will fine them $1.3 million a day and potentially put them out of business and people lose their jobs and you are okay with the government mandating that? >> i disagree with the whole premise of the argument. it is that this is some sort of abortion pill. that is simply not true. it is not an abortion pill. it prevents -- this is also about the contraception issue. >> you had your opportunity and i would appreciate the same kurtty. >> be clear in your facts. >> let me get them out and then i can be clear. >> sean: one at a time.

>> thank you. what i'm saying is that i disagree with the prell mess of the argument. it is that this is an abortion pill. is not true. it prevents conception. and remember, contraceptives are not just about avoiding pregnancy. many women take them for medical reasons. i know i have plenty of friend th that have to take contraceptives prescribed for medical reasons. so i have two women telling me about women's bodies. >> choose voluntarily to work at hobby lobby. they have been working there for years, maybe applying for a job now. they know this is something they will not get with the healthcare plan if hobby lobby is successful long term. this s also contraception and it is about religious freedom. it is not about banning anything. there are people on our side of this issue many of us who have no problem with some contraceptions but have problems with abortive. the truth is this is about

penalizing people because of their sincerely held religious belief. >> sean: let me ask you this question. i'm christian, a catholic and the church that i go to teaches that contraception is moral awrong but you yet under the health bill if you are catholic charity and there are are plenty of them and they he do really, really good work in communities, catholic hospitals, may close as a result of this. where are you standing on religious you keep arguing about contraception. that is not what we are arguing here. we are arguing whether people have the right to follow their own conscience and why prochose liberals don't respect the choices of others and why you would allow the government to force them to do something that contradicts their religious teaching? why do you support that? i don't understand. >> i support the law, first of all, as i stated but i also support the right for people to petition the courts if it they disagree with the law. there are many laws in the country that i don't agree with. >>